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Board index » Games » Age of Conquest (AOC) » AOC: Contests & more... » AOC: Leagues


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 Post subject: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 04:38 
Freeman
Freeman
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Joined: 17 Mar 2011, 09:15
Posts: 77
Hi to all 2vs2 league participants.

If you are all unhappy with the setting of me. Which is explained and followed by rules which are set up long time ago. then vote against it. I need 9 votes against it of the 20 potential Participants.

Put your name and opinion down. I cant change the system because of one complaint i need like more then 45% which are against it.
And promise i will change it.

Setting clans teams against each other is a complaining point.

I will follow the strong vs weak team model for 100% if 9 people give here their voice for it.

Therefore i put the substition day of incomplete teams on 18. march. So you have time to put your voice here.

Only participants of the 2vs2 mode can vote also waiting list players.

_________________________________________________________

Here again the explanation why and how i set up the teams vs each other:

##########################################
2vs2 team setting and explanation:

Calculating the positioning by formula: :klugscheisser:
(Rating of both players on day of application + RDA *50 )
RDA=remaining days of application 1. feb until 8 march 2012
total days 37. It is always counted the day of application of the first player who send the 1st team application.

TEAM numbers are given by time order of aplication

TEAM1:Melban, Tsili 3.173,02+37*50=5.023,02 Position:5th
TEAM2:Bendamaster,Kiev Rus3.464,36+35*50=5.214,36Position: 4th
TEAM3:MikeSA,KingDew 3.727,35+35*50=5.477,35 Position: 2nd
TEAM4:Gobuckeyes, bperuti 4.142,63+32*50=5.742,63 Position: 1st
TEAM5:Beldaron,Zurbina 3.736,01+32*50=5.336,01 Position: 3rd
TEAM6:Kongg,StoneCold 2.852,11+19*50=3.802,11Position:10th
TEAM7:Wodan,Shanti 3.083,61+16*50=3.883,87 Position:9th
TEAM8:Petraa76, Spago 3.667,61+16*50=4.467,61 Position:7th
TEAM9:Karlas, Huelin 3,768,10+16*50=4.568,10 Position:6th
TEAM10:KingHowardII, Lucjan 3.904,15+4*50=4,104,15 Position 8th

standard Positioning model:
1st vs 8th
2nd vs 7th
3rd vs 6th
4th vs 5th

Positioning without Clan rule:
TEAM 4(1st) vs TEAM 10 (8th)
TEAM 3(2nd) vs TEAM 8 (7th)
TEAM 5(3rd) vs TEAM 9 (6th)
TEAM 2(4th) vs TEAM 1 (5th)


TEAM 6 WAITING LIST
TEAM 7 WAITING LIST

Positioning with Clan rule:
(means in the 1st round clans have to be set vs each other/ the avoid of making strategies and influencing the competition by a will of a clan. Especially in these SMALL Team League of only 8 Teams. )

realRiff wrote:
indeed the first priority is setting clan members vs each other. the second priority is to put the higer ranked against the lower ranked people. But as everbody knows.. the Rating is not ALWAYS the true image how good a player is. Nevertheless, everything is possible.


1st vs 7th
2nd vs 6th (android clan) CLANRULE in Action
3rd vs 5th (2 non clan players vs 2 clan players-slayers)
4th vs 8th (1clan player of same clan are set vs each other -
slayers are set against each other) CLANRULE in Action

##########################################

The new team settings would be:

Gobuckeyes & bperuti vs KingHoward & Lucjan

MikeSA & KingDew vs Petraa76 & Spago

Beldaron & Zurbina vs Karlas & Huelin

Bendamaster & KievRus vs melban & tsili

please dont for get the Waiting List Teams which will substitute on March 18. if teams of 1. draft are incomplete.

1 day delayment because of giving time for a fair vote.


best regards realRiff :pal:

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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 05:13 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012, 17:45
Posts: 1241
the new settings seem more spread out... in my opinion. i'll vote in favor of no clan rule matchups. :gott:

err... vote count +1 :partyyy:

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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 06:36 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 11 Jan 2011, 04:45
Posts: 3
Hi, KingDew here.

While this new option is still not a random matchup system that I spoke of, it is structured more in a traditional playoff scheme. I vote for the new system. Thanks Riff for considering this.

+1 vote for new option. :???:


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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 07:24 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 09 Feb 2008, 07:12
Posts: 1003
Location: Manchester, England
I'd probably prefer it without the clan rule to be honest

+1

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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 08:26 
Serf
Serf

Joined: 21 Feb 2012, 01:08
Posts: 15
I'll vote against the current rule and vote for a change please!

:partyyy:


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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 10:17 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008, 11:39
Posts: 1321
Quote:
means in the 1st round clans have to be set vs each other/ the avoid of making strategies and influencing the competition by a will of a clan. Especially in these SMALL Team League of only 8 Teams


My thoughts :
things must always been as simple as possible.

clan is not a problem in a league => no clan rule
OR
clan is a problem in a league => only 1 team by clan is allowed.

trying to justify arbitrary decision just make everyone upset, if it's arbitrary make it radical. that will help to make you see in wich spirit you want to run your league.

I won't vote i"m not in the 2vs2 and i know so i should keep my mouth shutted. :kg:

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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 16:32 
Investigator
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
Posts: 3831
Location: Planet Earth, most of the time.
Okay, I fail to see anything wrong with the clan rule. Any competition that does not manage entries can become an unfair competition. If the Olympics allows the USA to have 40 professional basketball teams when Iceland can only muster 1 team. It's no longer a fair competition. So without a clan rule of some sort the League will become an unfair competition.

There are two ways to deal with this unfair advantage. One is to ask each clan to submit 1 team. Then everyone will be claiming it's not fair, they don't even get a chance to play. Or the other way is to allow everyone to play but you pair the same nations together so they are submitting their best and not just submitting numbers to effect outcome. Having clans face each other is like the USA have olympic trail out but the League is just doing it for you.

So why does everyone want an unbalanced, unfair fair league?

I would have to vote against this unless unless the clans wish to hold their own mini games prior to the start of the League and then only the best of best of each can join.

Point to claymore. If this was all brought up in the beginning, then you or anyone would have been allowed a voice, so I don't see why you can't now.


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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 19:16 
Freeman
Freeman
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Joined: 17 Mar 2011, 09:15
Posts: 77
very wise words claymore... and fodder too! The main problem of the 2vs2 League mode is that it has only 8 teams! and no clan rule.. would give those clans. an advantage. mathmaticaly expressed the chances are 62,5% that android or slayer wins this competition its over 50% and this is worse.

I dont expect from a clan player to see this aspect or to think this far. Also what is the meaning for the players who dont are participating with a big part of their clan in the team mode.

But on the other side it is also important to me that those 20 players feel comfortable in this league and are able like this to give their best and to prove that they can win this league with their team and spirit.

I dont know what kind of magic noblemaster put on AOC but it this game is brilliant, even it isnt up to date with grafics and sounds but it has something other games dont have and this is its community.

Thats the reason I want that the players decide what is going on. and I am sad that only KingHoward wrote his opinion before. And the others were mostly quite and did complain so late about this clan regulation. Anyway better now then never.

From my side I cant understand KingDew who dont like to fight his clan mates. But I see it also the same way like fodder stated it. His statement is brilliant as always.

But I cant give here any vote I aint one of those 20 who will decide this thing, until start of 18. march. Now its only less then 24 hours european time.

Lets see what happens. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2012, 20:28 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 08:15
Posts: 139
Location: Russia, Ekaterinburg
Rule of clans should be cancelled! All must play strictly in accordance with the rating. +1

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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2012, 00:03 
Freeman
Freeman

Joined: 17 Feb 2010, 05:35
Posts: 91
Location: Manchester, UK
I vote agains the current system and in favour of one where it is purely random or seeded (as you do in ALL international and national tournaments for ALL sports (e.g. football, chess, tennis, etc) regardless of country affiliation.

In fact in Football (the most wealthy and widely played sport) the teams from the same nationals are kept apart to stop the possibility of "making" sure one nation progresses).

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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2012, 03:53 
Peasant
Peasant

Joined: 17 Mar 2012, 03:23
Posts: 30
Eh.. Damn you guys, I had to do forum account for this topic, so yes, I am new to forum, noob in certain way... ;P My name is Miro... In game known as Karlas. :)

So, the vote...

My clan mates invited me to vote, but frankly I dont know where the problem is since...

I joined this LEAGUE becasuse its a league. To participate to something diffrent... Something whats not tournament, since in current set up of tournaments its always about "knocking out players system(stay in, win last game, you win it)".

What league means, at least in Europe(no offense to anyone :) ) is that EVERYONE in league plays with each other, probalby 2 games, home and away(not needed in our case), having a simple goal, avoiding simple thing, avoiding tournament knockout mode.

So, whats league all about? To avoid, having some weak team in knockout mode eliminate really good team, just by one lucky move in a game(in our case, capturing King, changes whole game from "about to lose" to win) or something.

So, by playing all with each other you get the most clear view of who is trully the best team since, noone gets eliminated, even if you lose first game, since your oppenent made a great game and you simply did all the wrong choices, by the end of league, you can still lets win all other games and be winner of the league.

Gotta go.. Damn.. Laters, but I think I said it all about it.


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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2012, 04:30 
Peasant
Peasant
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Joined: 27 Sep 2010, 02:50
Posts: 23
Location: Indianapolis, IN
New option I agree with Dew


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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2012, 04:36 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008, 11:39
Posts: 1321
Quote:
mathmaticaly expressed the chances are 62,5% that android or slayer wins this competition its over 50% and this is worse.

It's not a lotery it's a competition. Statisticaly the chance of a black man to be n°1 in golf are close to 0%. And yet.
You can put 15 japan professional tennismen and 1 Swiss in a tennis turney, if he's noblemaster his chance is very low, if he's Federer it's obviously not the same, right ? :kg:

Quote:
Any competition that does not manage entries can become an unfair competition. If the Olympics allows the USA to have 40 professional basketball teams when Iceland can only muster 1 team

This is not a decision based on fair, it's based on all countries must be in (wich is a political decision) and a good one according to me in the spirit of the olympics.
Fair is when the best players don't see arbitrary rule wich forbid them to have a chance to win. if the 8 best runner in the world are Americain a fair competition would see theses 8 american in final, (but all the rest of the worl would not watch it so no money for the organiser.)
In france in tennis we have the hope to see 1 player in semi final only if they're 2 french in 1/4 and the board put them in the same match :x
Actually if you volontary put 2 teams of the same clan in the same game you rise the chance of the clan to have a team in the next turn (from 50% to 100 %) , this is exactly the contrary of a fair decision (base on rated (1vs8 2 vs7 etc) to maximise the chance to see a high level final or based on random wich is the only really fair way.

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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2012, 04:59 
Peasant
Peasant
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Joined: 21 Jun 2011, 04:33
Posts: 42
Location: Europa
.... Gee ..., I burnt a few neurons trying to make sense of what was being argued ... :headbash:

In any case, I VOTE FOR THE NEW OPTION !! :partyyy:


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 Post subject: Re: 9 voices need to change team settings. Only particpants (20)
PostPosted: 17 Mar 2012, 05:04 
Peasant
Peasant
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Joined: 21 Jun 2011, 04:33
Posts: 42
Location: Europa
... as an added thought, I would prefer if we all played against each other, in limited games ... but that's just a thought ... :^^:


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