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 Post subject: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2011, 10:47 
Knight
Knight
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008, 11:39
Posts: 1321
Hi there,
long time i haven't been involved in a rant 'n rave story, i'd have really prefer not to, but well... here we go :

the fabulous story of Claymore vs the Sissy guy ( i assume everyone understand i use that code name to protect his real identity :^^: )

so the sissy guy ask me for alliance in turn 12 of the final of a turney, i officialy decline the offer and answer him :

Quote:
Dear Lord Sissy,
it's a kind of stalemate i'm not sure to be able to break your line in that one but i have to try it if i want to win that game.


Then the next turn i send few spy attack to test his coastal defense, and then i'm surprise that his coast has no defense and i've got 5 maybe 6 of his lands in this operation, well sounds as a good begin for this war.

then i got pm message from him

Quote:
Claymore,
I have just returned from holiday. I had hoped that I would be able to play while on holiday, but it turned out to be impossible. I am told that you are preparing to invade my lands. While I realize that you are not allied with me, I am asking that you give me a couple of turns to recover my position before you attack.

that's me who underlines.

and another one, five minutes later.

Quote:
Well it seems I am too late. I am not happy with what has happened in my absence. I will do every thing possible to see to it that you do not win this game!

still me who underlines.

so here was my answer :
Quote:
Hi Sissy,
don't get why you take it so seriously, i haven't done anything wrong. I've declined the alliance with you, and join a message explaining why and i have attacked you after you get the message. If you've missed moove [i meant "turn" instead of "moove" here] you should be anger after you not after me...


Sissy wrote:
You are probably correct. I seem to recall offering alliance to you before I went on holiday. Unfortunately, the game does not preserve a record of this, nor does it show you declining my offer.* I am not angry with myself as it was may intention to ally out of this game anyway. However, I am angry that you have taken advantage of my absence to go for a cheap win.

I assuere you that if I had been able to access the internet while I was on holiday, I would not have allowed you to take what you have taken from me. Of course this is not your fault, but you must admit that you have taken advantage of my inability to play the game.


so, i've answered
Quote:
Indeed, i have taken advantage of your inability to play the game.
:roll:

then he write me only via in game message :
Quote:
Dear Lord claymore,
the point that I have been trying to make with you is that I could not place this game at higher priority than a planned family vacation. Since we were travelling in areas where internet was not available, I could not access the game. Of course this is my misfortune and your good fortune, but I am telling you that both you and "Mr X." have taken land that you would not have been able to take if I had been able to get on the internet. You and he are in contention to win this game, If you do win by taking me out, it will not be your skill that made that possible, rather it will be an accident of bad timing for me. You have never struck me as a player who wished to win that way, but if that's what you want perhaps you will get it and perhaps you will not. Since "Mr X." has offered to give back what he took from me, I would rather suicide my lands to him than let you capture them.


I feel already tired about it :

clay wrote:
No the point is : you miss a turn.

And it seems i've already told you to not threat me.** I haven't done anything wrong, i've nothing to repair, you have no reason to complain, you should have decide to not join a turney during your hollidays, you should have asked a friend or a clan mate to take care of yours games. you should realize that's part of the game, that's not even a question of bad luck, it' was just totally in your hand. It's your mistake, assume it and fight without crying for a rematch.


and the last one,
Quote:
Dear Lord claymore,
I have tried to make the point that it is not fair to other players that u easily take me over. The only way I can stop you from doing this is to sacrifice my empire to "Mr X.". After this turn he will be able to take my king. If you agree to peace, I can stop him from taking me over and fairness will be served in this particular game. Please respond by mail so I can properly instruct "Mr X.". I hope that u are able to see my point. It's up to you.


So Sissy, yes i understand your view wich is you haven't get the first rule of this game wich is "Don't miss turn !"
So i won't spent more time to explain you difference between fair play, honour, and crying to get pity.
If you considerer that suicide is the best way to avoid me to win i hope for you that you will find better strategy in our next meetings on the battlefield in order to safe your boobs, cause i'll now crush you, or die in trying to, everywhere i see you. This is the third time you threat me, there's no way we can make any kind of peace. I won't hunt you, cause you don't deserve that i spent time for you, if you want peace don't join game where i am and disjoin game where i enter after you. And prepare yourself to suffer on turney.

* i've got the message screen shot of the me declining the alliance offer.
Image

**here the first one in a regular game few weeks ago,
Sissy wrote:
Dear Lord claymore,
In principal I am committed to peace with you, but you are attacking my clan mate and now he is being double teamed with Mr Yellow joining the battle. This is not fair. I stood by and did nothing when you attacked Mr Pink in the beginning as he had a large empire and it seemed a fair fight. It is not now a fair fight. I really do want peace between us and ask for you to back off and allow Mr Pink to fight one or the other of you but not both. For now you and I should obey a CF, while we negotiate a settlement. OK?


my answer wrote:
Hi Sissy,
I don't understand your argue, as you said i was in a fair battle with your mate and i don't get how you would take action against me for Mr Yellow's action. For your information Mr Green has just jumped on me would you consider fair that Mr White or MR brown jump on Mr Pink to balance it ?
That's a non sense.
Take action against people who attack your mate when they're already in war not against the guy who were engaged in a fair battle.
I play following my rule and the Viking's code, i've attacked the guy who had the more countries in this game, hard to do fairer, no ?
i've done nothing wrong, so I'd apreciate that you think about it a little more before telling me what i have to do, what is fair or not and threating me while i ask you a second time for peace.

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2011, 13:44 
Investigator
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
Posts: 3831
Location: Planet Earth, most of the time.
Okay, I read this. Not sure if I should pipe in or not but... Oh h e l l, I guess I will just to offer my opinions.

First off, let me say emotions can sometime get in the way and act like sunglasses, allowing you to see things in a tinted way. In my option, player S, sounds like he was just asking for a sporting chance, and your kindness to give back those "tests" lands, since it was just one turn. My guess, is he felt by doing so, you would have the satisfaction of winning by skill instead of winning by misfortune. I think he just wanted to give you a good fight, and without those lands it would just be a slaughter and pointless to fight back. He did say, he was willing to ally out because he felt he had no chance of winning, so I don't think he was thinking he could beat you.

Regarding your replies. Sure, you had identified him as your final target and didn't do anything really wrong in accordance to trying to play in a honourable way. However, i don't think that's what he was questioning. I think his point was he just wanted to be given a fighting chance. You are completely within your right to grant this request or not based upon your personality. Perhaps since this was a tourney game you might have felt the pressure of time, the pressure of the game, and decided you could not delay if you wanted a guarantee win. Nothing wrong with that. Now, you guys had a little discussion over it. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that but it appears you got a little offended by him not accepting your first no, or second no. If it was me, I don't think I've would've been offended by that but perhaps that's just me.

Overall it sounds like a fairly mature and reasonable conversation to me. One I don't think required the use of the "S" word for the player's anonymous name. Although, I do credit you in keeping the players anonymous. :-) Not sure what you are ranting and raving about other than player "S" not taking no for an answer and you being tied of explaining yourself.

I guess the only other thing I will comment on at this time is player X. Giving back lands in a tourney with $$, at a cost of time (turns), gold, victory points, etc, most likely has hurt his chances of winning. He sounds like an **** or an exceptionally cool guy. :lol: For now, I'll go with the latter. :D


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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2011, 13:58 
Knight
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008, 11:39
Posts: 1321
Fodder,
Quote:
Well it seems I am too late. I am not happy with what has happened in my absence. I will do every thing possible to see to it that you do not win this game!

I get that one before having said anything, i don't know what sun glasses you wear but change them, this is not a request for anything, this is a declaration of personal war with no valid reason.

Quote:
I guess the only other thing I will comment on at this time is player X. Giving back lands in a tourney with $$, at a cost of time (turns), gold, victory points, etc, most likely has hurt his chances of winning. He sounds like an **** or an exceptionally cool guy.

I agree with that part that what i had in mind when i've talking about difference between honour and crying for pity, who knows what would have been my reaction if he hasn't begin his request by an "I will do every thing possible to see to it that you do not win this game!" :headbash:

Oh and last thing there's no when he ask me for anything, he just told me that he will suicide if i refuse to give his become mine land back, this is to threat or to use blackmail, call it as you want it is not to ask, the only request was in his first message that he cancel himsel 5 minutes later...

edit :
for the use of word Sissy i choice it about the chantage affectif, that's what whimper do, don't leave me or i kill myself, give me my land back or i kill myself, you see, that's maybe not the good word for that... but that the first wich come in my mind in english, in French i'd have said gonzesse wich means girl. that usually hurts peeps proud of their virility ;) and in a wargame should work not too bad.

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2011, 15:25 
Investigator
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Joined: 06 Jul 2008, 18:23
Posts: 3831
Location: Planet Earth, most of the time.
I grant you that. Making a statement: "that I will do everything", is not a very nice thing to say or mean. In that regards I think his emotions got the best of him, although I guess I could be wrong. Yeah, I did miss commenting on that the first time and I should have. I was trying to recall all the points and forgot that one. However, like I said the overall tone of the conversation on both parts sounds rather civil.

As to the suicide, you can't suicide in AoC. That requires a second party to king snipe and I believe you had already addressed that issue.


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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2011, 16:16 
Knight
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Joined: 31 Jan 2008, 11:39
Posts: 1321
fodder wrote:
As to the suicide, you can't suicide in AoC. That requires a second party to king snipe and I believe you had already addressed that issue.

call it assisted suicide or euthanasie if you please, it's not that hard in a final of a turney to find someone who will take 25 free counties at the half of the game :)
If Mr X for example refuse to "win that way" he 'll find someone else.
What do you thing about his last "request", peace ?
How would it be fair ?
i'd alli him and then what ?
watch Mr X or Mr L win that game.
Or x-ally someone else ?
So fair for who ?
The truth is that inactivity kill the balance of game, there's nothing wich can change that. and the fault is on guy who miss turns ! and that's justice if they're the first victim of it...
Mr Brown has been kingsnape in the semi final of the steinturney i think he has missed that turn so he would ask the other guys to give him his 20 countries back, really ?
That wasn't a reasonable request and that hasn't been done in the good way, this is not correct to ask two guys in a run for victory to run back, cause a third one can win cause of it.
If he hasn't been aggressive i'd have try to explain that to him, but i don't think i'd have get back... that's not fair.
So if fair means only fair for him, i don't really regret what happen cause i will be safer with him not on my side.

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2011, 02:43 
Knight
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Joined: 22 May 2008, 13:29
Posts: 1379
Location: The 23rd plane of the Abyss
claymore wrote:
That wasn't a reasonable request and that hasn't been done in the good way, this is not correct to ask two guys in a run for victory to run back, cause a third one can win cause of it.


so... which one of u guys is going to x-ally me and attack for helping that third guy (mr. brown?) try to win? :roll: :p spanking

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2011, 11:51 
Knight
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Joined: 12 Jul 2007, 15:10
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He's the one that failed to properly defend his coast while there was a chance that he could be attacked. I never trust a neighbor with an alliance until I hear a positive answer from them regarding my request. I always have my borders defended until they agree to an alliance. He's just crying over something that is his fault and he won't admit it.

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2011, 20:34 
Freeman
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Joined: 17 Feb 2010, 05:35
Posts: 91
Location: Manchester, UK
Seeing as I haven't posted in ages...

I think that we all say things in a manner we wish we hadn't. I know both players and both are decent, honourable and fair.

One bit I don't get is that "S" said he was going to ally himself out of the game - so what's the issue with exiting the game this way instead? Tournament games don't have ratings attached, so you might as well go in move 15 than move 50.

I hope this matter can be put to bed.

On a side note: I think we should stop this "Vikings" honour stuff, I've had them double team me a couple of times :roll:

MikeSA

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2011, 05:32 
Knight
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Hi mike,
MikeSA wrote:
On a side note: I think we should stop this "Vikings" honour stuff, I've had them double team me a couple of times :roll:

rule 15 of the vikings wrote:
We are always open to fair and just criticism. If there is any player with a valid complaint regarding our tactics or ethics, and would like to discuss it, they are welcome to do so on our forum where we have a special thread set up for this purpose.

So feel free to defend your thought there :
http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/viewf ... um=vikings
If noone officially complains how can we know that we may be sometimes foreseen as borderline ?

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2011, 13:03 
Freeman
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Joined: 19 May 2008, 11:54
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Only because I rarely post anything.
My feelings are, if you missed a turn (for whatever reason), all is fair. In otherwords, unless you have a firm alliance, always expect an attack and if you fail to defend your land, so much the better for the one attacking you. I have missed many a turn over the years (vacation, holiday, computer failed, etc...) and have lost the advantage because of it. Bottom line, it "S*cks to be me" :headbash: when that happens.
Remember, It's just a game and a fun one at that.

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2011, 13:50 
Knight
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i think i sniped herrmueller in a game when he was in cancun(?)

and i still ask... who was the lucky one in that situation?!? :???:

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011, 05:27 
Freeman
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Howie, That is a hard one to answer, Let's see - Lose a game or enjoy the sun, water, fun, and alcohol. I think I'll take the later....
All is fair in Love and War....

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011, 06:59 
Knight
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stuff me in ur suitcase next time! i'm skinny and flexible, i'll fit! :partyyy:

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011, 12:54 
Knight
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After you stuff him in a suitcase, put him on a plane to Northern Alaska! :D :pssst:

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 Post subject: Re: To the Sissy boy...
PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011, 14:56 
Knight
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sweeeeet.... cancun, then alaska... now that's a holiday worthy of the howard :partyyy:

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